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TOSEC Project => Database / Datfiles => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Vaxalon on March 29, 2011, 07:32:08 PM

Title: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 29, 2011, 07:32:08 PM
Currentely working on the Spectrum dats, games tzx part in particular, bringing it all upto date.

Any error reports would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 29, 2011, 07:35:42 PM
Ok got a little question guys, something i want to do, not quite sure what route to take..lets see
 
ok an example file being :
Conman The Barbaric (19xx)().tzx

now, this is a 3 part adventure, all included inside that tzx, im not quite sure how to properly represent that thou, atm, to fill in, im using

Conman The Barbaric (19xx)()[Parts 1, 2, 3].tzx

Doesnt feel quite right, any suggestions? and i DO want to keep that info in.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: PandMonium on March 29, 2011, 07:53:09 PM
Hi Vaxalon,

Media Type flag (http://www.tosecdev.org/index.php/tosec-naming-convention?start=13) (TNC) is exactly what you're looking for.

According to your example and extra info provided by WoS (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0006105), the right setname would be:

Conman the Barbaric (1991)(Elven Adventurers)(Part 1-3 of 3)

which would result in:
TITLE:      Conman the Barbaric
YEAR:      1991
PUBLISHERS:   1   ("Elven Adventurers")
MEDIA TYPE:   Part   CURRENT #:   1 (to 3)   TOTAL #:   3


In WoS link there is also information about "Machine Type" (ZX Spectrum 48K) and publisher country (?) (UK). I don't know details about spectrum or WoS but others can tell you if that info is valuable to be added in system and country flags as well, if it is the set would change from (1) to (2):
1) Conman The Barbaric (19xx)()[Parts 1, 2, 3]
2) Conman the Barbaric (1991)(Elven Adventurers)(48K)(GB)(Part 1-3 of 3)

The last part is just an example on how existent sets can be improved! In this case it is probably wrong and "48K" was never used as a system flag before.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 29, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
Yep, thanks for the way forward on that one.

as to country...um, well i dont think i really agree with the need, being as oh..95%? of all spectrum stuff IS from the UK, thou of course, I can see where its handy for the few non english ones.

As to 48....well thats a trickier one, 48k is pretty much the standard , for again, 95% of the stuff, so far with those, its more a case that ive been adding (16k)(128k) or, (48k-128) on the exceptions to the rule. While I COULD add (48k) to everything, i would call it fairly useless.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 29, 2011, 08:30:06 PM
hm just checked that again

..)(Part 1-3 of 3)

does that really tell people all 3 parts are in the one file?
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: PandMonium on March 29, 2011, 10:05:40 PM
Like i said both flags were examples (UK) and (48K), i'm not saying that the usage of it in this case is correct.

Media Type is correct that way. It identifies the media number, for example Disk 1 of 3. Since there are cases (like the set you have there) with multiple parts you add the interval with "-", (Part 1-2 of 3) for example. The rule is defined there so anyone reading (Part 1-3 of 3) should really understand that this set is part 1 to 3 of the software, with a total of 3 parts.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: gorski on March 29, 2011, 10:31:32 PM
Vaxalon is right (GB) country flag will be strange in sinclair stuffs, other country active righting software is (ES) in this case flag is good i change some flags almost all (es) flags in dats must be (ES) may be few (IT) stuffs from italy magazines most of them stolen from original UK games and this 3 country flags get 99,999% of all thousand names :)

Greets,
Gorski

p.s.

Double Dragon II - The Revenge (1989)(Virgin Mastertronic) in one side and
Double Dragon II - The Revenge (1990)(Dro Soft)(es)[re-release]
Dro Soft is ES but this is only re-release but game display espaniol messages in this re-release what must be only (es) or (ES) Dro Soft is not writer of game
?
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 30, 2011, 08:15:01 AM
heres a possibility :

Double Dragon II - The Revenge (1990)(Virgin Mastertronic - Dro Soft)(ES)[re-release]
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Cassiel on March 30, 2011, 02:31:00 PM
Exactly….. it’s not unusual for games to have different/additional publishers in territories outside the original domestic release.

I wouldn’t bother with adding [re-released] either, since it’s simply a different territory release not a re-release to the same country.

If it looks like it’s an unauthorised copy though (as you said some of these can be), that complicates it slightly. You would then need to add a [p] or a possibly a [h] flag, depending on what the story is….
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: TKaos on March 30, 2011, 02:55:58 PM
Wouldn't put Virgin Mastertronic in there cause they have nothing to do with the ES release.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 31, 2011, 08:52:58 AM
Right...got another naming issue to throw at you guys.

The central problem here, is often the only way to tell a spectrum TZX apart from another, is the loading method used. Sometimes this is due to pirating...ie..multiface rips, but those happily are very rare.

Most of the time its a simple re-release, and the company in question felt the need to change the loading system, for no particular, or known reason. As its a useful way to differentiate the files, I keep it in.

Arrow Of Death (Channel 8 Software)(Part 1-2 of 2)[Brian Howarth's Mysterious Adventures no3&4].tzx
Arrow Of Death Part II (Channel 8 Software)[a different loader][Brian Howarth's Mysterious Adventures no4].tzx
Arrow Of Death Part II (Channel 8 Software)[a2 different loader][Brian Howarth's Mysterious Adventures no4].tzx

ok my issue here is...different loader seems...clumsy. when i can identify the particular loader type , i use that instead but..not always possible. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: PandMonium on March 31, 2011, 03:21:31 PM
Hey,

I guess you can drop the "different". It is an alternate flag so it already means something is different. That way using "[a bootloader]", "[a sprites]", "[a title]" and so on already explains quite correctly what is different, do you agree?

Also, just by looking at that example, you don't need to have two alts, after all it seems to me you have 2 different "pieces of software" there:
1) Arrow Of Death by Channel 8 Software
2) Arrow Of Death Part II by Channel 8 Software

Am i correct? So... only the last two are similar and they could even be different versions and all that. You just have to use alt flags when you have sets that are exactly the same software, version, date and so on with minor changes introduced by the publisher itself (if they were done later, by users it is not an original alternate but a user made modification - m).

To conclude, you're also missing the "date" flag in those examples, don't know if you already have TDE with you but it will highlight such errors and need to be fixed :P
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 31, 2011, 05:28:47 PM
yes i know im missing the dates, you will just have to trust me on the obvious stuff hm?:)

The trouble alot of the time....is you DONT know who modified a spectrum tape....in many cases, the same company could have re-released them with a different loading system, or..an alternative company, doing the same.

unlike the c64..where pirates put trainers on damn near everything, that hardly happened on the spectrum, at all.

which is why we decided, a LONG time ago, that the [!] flag was damn near impossible to certify, even if you converted the game yourself.

right.the alt thing, ok well im no programmer, but i can identify certain loading systems, bleepload...speedlock..etc etc. What im looking for here is a generic term to cover unidentified loading systems. As already stated, thats sometimes the only difference between many speccy games.

"[a bootloader]", "[a sprites]"....and so on...hm. now...to give an example...two of the loaders here are different...because the header block says "advent" on one, and "arrow/d" on second. And for those thats the ONLY difference i can see. so....how would you put that across? [a header]..?
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: TKaos on March 31, 2011, 08:53:56 PM
Would just go with [unk loader] into the more info flag, just like I use [unk filesystem] in the Apple II DATs when I can't identify those.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: gorski on March 31, 2011, 10:05:52 PM
Hello,
[cassiel]
If it looks like it’s an unauthorised copy though (as you said some of these can be), that complicates it slightly. You would then need to add a [p] or a possibly a [h] flag, depending on what the story is….

we talk for fully legitime re-release in other country (ES).. :) we not have to discuss about this :)

Vaxalon what about speedlock numbering system ... i know two "standards" for numbering of speedlock .. :) and not know who is right ... i talk in 2 speccy uk channels and work is 70/30 ... speedlock 7 = speedlock 4 variant 1,2 ?:) and etc.. :)
Vaxalon i suggest to do rename quite and not disturb others with complicated sinclair stuffs :-P :)))
current dat have hundred (thousand:) of errors but in any way i'm respected of all work do in this dats from begginig :)
Vaxalon say:
which is why we decided, a LONG time ago, that the [!] flag was damn near impossible to certify, even if you converted the game yourself.

C:\newspeciproject\originals\hypersports>c:\games\sinclair\maketzx234b1\maketzxw.exe -ls1 hsa.wav

this line genereate tzx file of hyper sports game for sinclair (100% accurate and usable if convert to wav save to tape and play in real spectrum)
i own this tape ( http://tosec2.no-ip.org/vaxalon ) and sample hsa.wav is my ... problem is this line with same input generate EVERY time different tzx file .. no chances to make same tzx .. i have rights to put [!]  in generated in this way file ?:)

Greets,
Gorski

p.s. /me is happy Vaxalon is back :)

p.p.s. Vaxalon i think long time to add [tzx v 1.20] info flag for files with this version (because i add them to dat) but at all i not add ..:)(i think this must know for this files.. :)
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on March 31, 2011, 11:55:33 PM
well, choosing a way to go..im using the moreinfo for it in this way [alternative loader], because, in essence, thats exactly what it is.

As to the legitimacy of foreign games...how can a spanish release of a english game...possibly be considered a foreign release? its a re-release, nothing more. UNLESS they added to the game, of course.

As to speedlocks? well...i admit, i use Speculator, some of the nice TZX makers, included info on the loading scemes, which helps alot, i seem to recall something way about about spotting them..by watching them load but..thats not 100% (i think the load headers are actually called speedlockxxx...i could be wrong)

Bleeploads are easy as hell to spot....so are turboloads, give speculator a try..with slow load, and the info tab open, helps alot.

And..you want me to be quiet? after the lecture pandemonium gave me about work in the community?:))

[Vaxalon say: which is why we decided, a LONG time ago, that the [!] flag was damn near impossible to certify, even if you converted the game yourself.]

Ok this is tricky, but let me give you an example....take one the the adventure international games, adventures, release by at least four different companies. EXACTLY the same game...but maybe..different load schemes......now given that they are all the same....which one would YOU, call the best....original.....perfect...version?

now an old company i used to playtest for once gave me his "master" tapes.....does that make them perfect? or as close to perfect as possibly? i cant really answer that with any certainty myself. And yes, your quite right...exacly the same game....made with maketzx..., five...or six times..would ALWAYS have a different checksum.

But...use [!] if you think its your due :) im probably wrong :)



btw....2 UK speccy channels? do tell...i would find em handy :)

Ok....not sure about adding the software you use to make the file as a field......any comments on that chaps? not entirely sure i see the relevance.

Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on April 06, 2011, 10:22:11 PM
Ok guys I thought i would let you know the current direction im taking, and the new processes im using.

First off...reloading, and renaming, the entire damn tzx set, various errors, and it turns out, some corrupt images were added as well, those i will be removing....not quite sure if im removing bad ones thou..alot of the time those just work on different emulators, where as corrupt...is corrupt, whatever emulator.

Ok the application of (48k), (128k), (16k) or...(48k-128k)

ok in general about 95% of all the spectrum stuff is 48k, so the field seems not needed, as in, it provides nothing useful.

16k=fairly rare...so using it
128k=on those games that are 128k ONLY
48k=ONLY using 48k in a situation where a clear difference between a 128k version, and 48k version, is desirable
48k-128k= some of the images have both versions on board. To find out which...one merely has...to listen :)

ok now heres the major change im making, in a more info field, at the end, im adding [tzx v1.10] or...whatever version. I mused on this after gorsek suggested it...and frankly, its a MUCH better way of removing the [a] from alts that are completely the same. basically in MANY of the games, the version of maketzx used to create it, is the only difference.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on April 12, 2011, 04:42:19 PM
Alright, bit of an open request here guys....I want your spectrum stuff! Trash sets, Garbage, whatever. Im sure, like me, you have "undone" sinclair stuff squirreled away. Not quite sure how we cant transfer but, im sure we could work something out.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: PandMonium on April 14, 2011, 02:40:08 PM
Sinclair QL or just spectrum? There is a great amount of QL stuff to be added (submitted by Xttx), unfortunately our QL dat is really small. If spectrum only i bet gorski has a ton of it, just pm him :)
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: TKaos on April 14, 2011, 03:55:37 PM
I'd rather prefer if the whole Spectrum DATs get a huge cleanup of filenames than putting "trash files" in there just to make it bigger.
In the end it'll help us a lot more if we have a clean DAT and then start to add files, anything else is wasted time in my opinion.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on April 14, 2011, 06:00:27 PM
well i can appreciate your view point of course, considering the vagueries of how i process this thou, adding extra files is actually the smallest part of the undertaking. I have already "cleaned" the existing set, to a certain point at any rate.

All that i can do from this point, cleaning wise, is to run , on slow load, every single file, and compare it to the other files in that particular group.

With the current WIp status at approx 16k that should take me approximately.....8 years :)

I should point out something thou, when i took over the spectrum TZX originally, i basically just ADDED to what was there, with some focus on cleaning.

Since Ive got back into this, I have re-done the entire set, checked, each and every file. The major changes in identification, thus far, I have probably listed. Such as 48k...128k....16k...etc etc
The changes of use are focusing on the loader used in each game, with the spectrum in mind, thats a VERY good way of identifying the particular dump used. I am also appending the version of tzx used on that particular file, which again has its uses.

Which leads me to my current headache...italian conversions of existing english games...with no dates..and no company....well..some of em anyway. Right now thou, still alot of minor corrections to attend to, but if you want to view the wip in progress, PM me.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on April 14, 2011, 06:01:57 PM
oh as to QL..well...sad to say i dont know a damn thing about the QL...really.
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Cassiel on April 14, 2011, 11:19:05 PM
Here you go... uploaded some spectrum to one of my servers:
http://www.redsplinter.com/tosec/sinclair.rar

Around 5000 images....
Title: Re: Vaxalons WIP
Post by: Vaxalon on April 15, 2011, 01:11:37 PM
very nice cass, i shall peruse them at my leisure :)
grabbed em :)