Author Topic: Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?  (Read 235 times)

Offline NLS

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Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?
« on: September 13, 2018, 09:37:32 AM »
So, if someone goes to TOSEC downloads, except of course the dats themselves and TNC, there is the tools section that supposedly does all the magic...
Let see...

1) ADF-Workshop. An application by Crashdisk, last version in 2015, which is fair if it works. Nice, but of course only for Amiga ADF.

2) TOSEC Dat Explorer... Now we are talking. Nice for clean-up etc. Erm... actually there is no app here. Nice detail: It was created "last year" (with no year mentioned in the article, so it is perpetually "last year" any year). Erm... ok.

3) TIM. Boom. First sentence is that it is discontinued. Then you read about nasty bugs and outdated and that it shouldn't be used. YET, it is available to download! (Why? Honoring the preservation nature of TOSEC? :D  Or to punish people that get it and don't read the description?)

4) Last, the big name, TUGID. The ultimate. Only it is... "very old" and listed for historic reasons (at least there is no download for people to ruin their collection). And it points you to... TIM (see above). Damn. That's a tricky one.

I think it is safe to say that this section is in dire need of a clean up.
And actual tools to use would be a plus?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 09:39:06 AM by NLS »



Offline Maddog

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Re: Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 08:17:47 PM »
TIM and TUGID are only pieces of ancient history and haven't been used for active TOSEC work for more than a decade I think.

TDE is still useful, as it will show several common errors in WIP dats and save some hassle. But it's quite rough around the edges. I personally don't use it, although others still find it useful.
ADF Workshop is quite powerful for anyone Amiga-oriented.

Offline NLS

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Re: Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 11:37:16 PM »
Man replying to this a month (!) after posting the question is not very reassuring on how active TOSEC is.
It is a bit frightening to be honest.


I hope this is because this forum is also a relic and you have other means of communication as a team - I HOPE.


Facts remain though:


1) Maybe it is time to clean-up the download section of TOSEC (I mean how hard can it be... just 4 pieces of software where 1.5 of them are useful - update their descriptions or simply delete the entries), to stop confusing people.


2) I don't see any real tool suggested to take their place or anyway actually used to maintain and clean (and check) the huge database that TOSEC is. Or alternatively a call for help? (I mean it is not forbidden to say "well thing is we need new tools and we are not actually developers to make those tools, please help")


If I sound harsh, maybe it comes from the fact that I support TOSEC so much (and have been even bashed for this) - Maddog you may have noticed actually in various other places - and I really want to believe there is something VERY much ALIVE (and active) back there and not something barely holding by maybe one or two people...


Offline Maddog

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Re: Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 10:11:47 AM »
I replied when I had the time to give a reply. :)
As a team, we do have other ways of communicating in real time and do not rely on the forum. Regarding the forum, we do get notifications of all posts that others make by automatic system.
Thing is, most of the time when I get the notification, I will be busy with something else and unable to respond immediately. So I just put a mental note to reply later. If this "busy-time" extends to more than a couple of days, I will simply forget about it completely. I am a rusty old man by now anyway. :P
From time to time, I will do a round-up of topics in the forum that I have not read. If something useful is there, my idea is that it's better to respond late than never. And that's quite simply what has happened here. :)

On your concerns, which are quite valid: TOSEC was never a huge organization, even on the prime days when rom hunting was a pretty new thing and emulating a Megadrive properly was still a big deal. Many years have passed since then and the 20-25 year olds of that time with a lot of spare time have become 45 year olds with real works and families. Nowadays there are maybe 10 people working on TOSEC in their spare time. Some of them have specific interests (especially Commodore falls into this category) and a few others do broader work. We could use more hands, but it's proven over many years that people able and willing to do this kind of work are extremely rare. Needless to say, if anyone appears and wishes to help, they are most welcome to join us. :)

This doesn't affect only TOSEC, but more or less all similar "organizations". Eg, I have posted many PSP verifies in NoIntro a month or so ago, which are not added yet because there's not a single standard maintainer for PSP in NoIntro. Or, I hope you realize that most of the mighty work that archive.org has done in old systems preservation was only the work of a single person, Jason Scott. I don't know why people believe there are some kind of massive organizations behind all this archival work. There aren't any.

My personal way of working does not involve use of any tools apart from ClrMAME Pro to get the hashes of new files. PandMonium is the site maintainer and also doing most of the development work for us, but he is usually quite busy as well and probably fixing these relatively low importance niggles is not a high priority for him. If he happens to see the post, he may be able to tell more about his point of view on the matter.

Offline NLS

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Re: Guys, where are TOSEC official tools!? Is that part of TOSEC dead?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 11:36:56 AM »
Thanks for the detailed reply.


(although I had some kind of deja vu and I pictured myself reading that same reply before?...)


Keep up the good work (not the first time I tell you this).