Some newbie questions

[mictlantecuhtle]

Hi all, first wanted to say I've been a big fan of the project for a long time, good to see it still running.

I have been working at renaming a bunch of Camputers Lynx files not in TOSEC, and have a few questions I'd like to ask.

Firstly, the "System" flag is not currently in use on this system, but it looks like it should be. From what I can tell, there are 48K, 96K and 128K versions of the system and I've confirmed that the roms I have which are marked as 128K (for example) do not work on an emulated 48K or 96K system. Am I right in thinking I need to add system flags here? I also recall reading a discussion on here (about Spectrum roms, IIRC) where this came up, and the conclusion seemed to be that if "48K" (for example) is the most commonplace system flag then it only needs to be added where there is also a 96K or 128K version of the same rom. This is how I've been doing things so far, not sure if that's correct?**

My second question has to do with country / language flags. I have a bunch of French games / applications for it, but no indication of whether the software was actually commercially released in France. Should I be using the country flag (FR) or the language flag (fr) here?

Finally, what does it take to qualify something as a "Compilation" release? I have one game here called "Rocketman" which is actually two games ("Factorfire" / "Bondrunner") by the same author. It looks to me like this is the way it was originally released (the first screen when you load the tape says "Rocketman--a pair of number games for kids"), but I'm not sure how to name it. Should it be "Rocketman (1983)(G. Smith)" or "Factorfire & Bondrunner (1983)(G. Smith)"?

I apologise if these questions are stupid, but I'd rather not contribute badly / wrongly named releases.

** A further note on this, I just read this page, which suggests that there are some backwards compatibility issues with the 96K and 128K systems, which makes things more complicated (although I haven't noticed any problems like this in emulation so far).

EDITED TO ADD: Another question related to language flag. The game "Dam Busters" is mostly in English, except for one brief bit of French in the controls selection - "Clavier (C) ou Joystick (J)". According to TNC (en-fr) is to be used when a game contains both English and French versions, which (strictly speaking) this doesn't. The game itself was downloaded from a collection of French games on a Camputers Lynx site, so maybe it should be labeled (FR)(en) or even (FR)(en-fr)?

[TKaos]

Hello there, nice to see you being interested in that system, I wanted to maintain it myself but I'm way to busy with the current DATs I have, so it's nice to see someone else does it.

To your questions:
1. Well I can just agree here, use that 48/96/128K as system flag and yes you're right in what you're thinking about it, also if you have the same game but 96K and 128K version then of course add it to the flag.
2. I'd go as far to say if the game name, language and author/programmer name is a French one then it's ok to use (FR).
3. If the startup screen shows Rocketman then I'd use that as name for this compilation, also keep in mind to use (surname, name) in publisher flag because in your example it's wrong and should be (Smith, G.).
I'd go for "Rocketman - A Pair of Number Games for Kids (1983)(Smith, G.)
4. It's a difficult case, would almost say (FR)(en) is fine in that one as it uses like almost no french words.

[mictlantecuhtle]

Thanks for the feedback  . I always forget the Surname, Name thing for some reason. Finished the first pass on this set of files, still need to go back and test all of them for 48/96/128K compatibility - from the few tests I've done so far it seems like some 48K games work fine on both 96 & 128K, others work fine on only one of those and others work only on 48K. There's no guidance on multiple system compatibility in the TNC, so I'm not sure if it should look like this

"Awesome Game, The (1984)(Some Guy)(48K & 96K & 128K)"

or this

"Awesome Game, The (1984)(Some Guy)(48-96-128K)"

The first seems a little inelegant to me, but I guess confusion could arise with the second system if there were a game which worked on 48 and 128 but not 96K systems. (48-128K) is ambiguous - does it mean the game only works on 48 and 128K systems or does it mean the game works on all systems from 48 to 128K? So I guess (48K & 96K & 128K) is more accurate, if less pretty.

With regards to my questions 2 and 4 above, the plot thickens somewhat. I've found several roms so far with both English and French versions. In all cases, the French title screen and all information regarding publisher, year, etc. remains unchanged from the English version, but for some reason the French versions all require the 96K model, where the English versions work fine with the 48K.

The problem as I see it is that for these games, the country of origin appears to be (GB) per the title screens, but the games have obviously undergone some kind of conversion process as they require the 96K model. So I'm not sure if the French version of

"Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)"

Ought to be

"Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(FR)"

Or

"Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(GB)(fr)"

Apologies for length and rambling nature of post.

[TKaos]

Well we should always try to make filenames not really huge, anyway it should be (48K-96K-128K) in the case you mentioned but on the other hand, do we really need to point out that this file will work on all systems?
It's like you would put all Amiga models into a filename because it works on all.
I'd rather only use max. 2 of 3 Systems and if it works well on all then there's no need to put all that extra stuff into the filename.

For the second one, if you know it's a conversion from the (GB) release for the (FR) marked it could be (GB)(fr), don't know if that really helps you.

I know it's way to tricky at the moment to cover everything in a filename especially with rare cases and it's also not very well explained in the TNC, we're trying to solve this somehow but there are so many special needs for some systems that it'll take up long time to cover everything in the documentation.

[mictlantecuhtle]

I think in this case it might be easier in some ways to point out the files that work on all systems. Here are some notes from my testing run so far:

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3D Monster Craze 48 96 [bad gfx on 128]
Backgammon 48 96 128 [possibly b? cannot get to work beyond "Start Tape". may be using emulator improperly]
Battlebrick 48 96 [crashes 128]
Centipede 48 96 [128 fails to load graphics]
Colossal Adventure 1-5 [cannot get this to work yet. noted in emulator help that these are a pain to get working]
Dam Buster 48 96 [bad gfx on 128]
Dam Buster (fr) 96 [standard error for 96-only games on 48 is "NOT YET IMPLEMENTED in line 120", for example][bad gfx on 128]
Deathball 48 96 [bad gfx on 128]
Diggerman 48 96 [128 "number out of range"]
Floyds Bank 48 96 [128 fails at loading screen]
Gobble de Spook 48 96 [bad gfx on 128]
Gridtrap 48 96 [bad gfx 128]

The problem is that most games run on both 48K & 96K, but only one game so far runs (to a point) on all three systems. For this system (48K-96K) is the norm - most games will run on both. Personally, I would rather only flag the few games which run on all three systems and the few games (mostly those French conversions) which only run on 96K. That does unfortunately lead to longer filenames in some cases, but reduces the amount of unnecessary flags in the overall set.

[TKaos]

On the other hand, I think the system doesn't really have that much flags so the filenames don't become long with those system flags, unlike other systems were you sometimes have a file cracked/trained and maybe some more info field for something.
In the end we try to put as much info in as possible, if it's usefull for the people.

[mictlantecuhtle]

Well, I'd be happy to add in the (48K-96K) flags if you would prefer it. The longest filename in my WIP folder is

Code: [Select]

Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 3 of 5)(48K)[adventure data].tap
so there's plenty of room for it.

I've finished checking and renaming all the games, including system flags. Hopefully there won't be too many embarassing errors in this list

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3D Monster Craze (19xx)(Camsoft)(48K-96K)(GB).tap
Backgammon (1983)(Camsoft)(GB).tap
Battlebrick (19xx)(-).tap
Centipede (19xx)(Play It!).tap
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 1 of 5)(48K)[welcome].TAP
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 2 of 5)(48K)[binary loader].TAP
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 3 of 5)(48K)[adventure data].tap
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 4 of 5)(48K)[adventure data].tap
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9)(Tape 5 of 5)(48K)[adventure data].tap
Dam Buster (1983)(Camsoft)(96K)(GB)(fr).tap
Dam Buster (1983)(Camsoft)(GB).TAP
Deathball (19xx)(-).tap
Diggerman (19xx)(Hunt, C.).tap
Floyds Bank (19xx)(Romik Software).tap
Gobble de Spook (1983)(Sian, J.).tap
Gridtrap (19xx)(-)(fr).tap
Labyrinthe (19xx)(Quazar Computing)(48K-96K-128K)(FR).tap
L'Odysee d'Asterix (19xx)(La Bibliotheque de Cintre)(96K)(FR).tap
Logichess v2.2 (1983)(Danielsen, Kaare & Ekner, Hartvig)(96K).tap
Lynx Hangman (1983)(Steven B. French).tap
Mastermind (19xx)(-)(96K)(FR).tap
Mazeman (1983)(Abersoft).tap
Mined Out (19xx)(Quicksilva).tap
Moonfall (1983)(Halamaj, Richard P.)(FR).tap
Muncher (1983-06-09)(Gordon, Robert).tap
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)(fr).tap
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)(fr)[b].tap
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(96K)(GB)(fr).tap
Oh Mummy!! (1983)(Gem Software).tap
Play Your Cards Right (19xx)(-)(96K).tap
Racer (1983)(Sian Software).tap
Reversi (1983)(Hunt, C.).tap
Rocketman (1983)(G. Smith).tap
Scrablynx (1985)(Sauget, Alain)(96K)(FR).tap
Snake (1983)(Hunt, C.).tap
Space Trek (19xx)(Quazar Computing).tap
Spellbound (1983)(G. Smith).tap
The Worm (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(fr).tap
The Worm (1983)(Quazar Computing).tap
Tron Blocker (19xx)(-)(96K)(FR).tap
Twinkle (1983)(Gem Software).tap
Zombie Panic (19xx)(-)(FR).tap

Thanks again for all the help and feedback, it is much appreciated  .

[TKaos]

From what I can see so far:
(Level 9) should be (Level 9 Computing) as far as I know.
L'Odysee d'Asterix (19xx)(La Bibliotheque de Cintre)(96K)(FR).tap -> Odysee d'Asterix, L' (19xx)(La Bibliotheque de Cintre)(96K)(FR).tap I know it looks strange but it's kinda like "The" in english names so should go to the end.
Rocketman (1983)(G. Smith).tap -> Rocketman (1983)(Smith, G.).tap
Spellbound (1983)(G. Smith).tap -> Spellbound (1983)(Smith, G.).tap
Lynx Hangman (1983)(Steven B. French).tap -> Lynx Hangman (1983)(French, Steven B.).tap   Not sure about this one.
The Worm (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(fr).tap -> Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(fr).tap
The Worm (1983)(Quazar Computing).tap -> Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing).tap

Maybe someone else here could post about the "L'Odysee d'Asterix" name, I had a similar name in the Atari 8bit DAT just renamed yesterday and also used ", L' " at the end.

[mictlantecuhtle]

So I've finished going through everything I downloaded plus the old TOSEC dats (with the exception of Magazines, as I have some scans of magazines and type-in listings I want to sort through so I can check this dat against them). Before I upload the dats somewhere (I'm not sure what the procedure is for that), I thought I should give a list of changes and additions so I can correct any obvious errors now.

Changes

Code: [Select]


APPLICATIONS

Copys (19xx)(-) changed to Copys (19xx)(-)(96K-128K) -- gives error message on 48K. does not appear to do anything on 96K-128K, but isn't obviously bad (i.e. causes crashing / freezing / glitches etc.). probably a copy function of some kind, given the name. not sure whether to flag as [b].
Copys (19xx)(-)[a] changed to Copys (19xx)(-)(96K-128K)[a] -- as above
Sketch Pad (1984)(Camputers) changed to Sketch Pad (1984)(Camputers)(48K-96K-128K)(GB)

DEMOS

3D City (19xx)(-) changed to 3D City (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)[b] -- [b] added as it gives error message on all 3 systems but still runs.
3D Secan (1985)(Death Todd) changed to 3D Secan (1985)(Death Todd)(48K-96K-128K)
3D Section (1985)(Death Todd) changed to 3D Section (1985)(Death Todd)(48K-96K-128K)
Demo 3 (19xx)(-)  -- does not appear to do anything on any system, not sure whether to flag as [b]. small filesize ~200 bytes. maybe does something to the system but displays nothing on screen.
Demo 4 (19xx)(-) -- as above
Dump (1985)(Death Todd) -- as above
Enlarge (19xx)(-) changed to Enlarge (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)
JIK (1985)(Death Tood) changed to JIK (1985)(Death Todd)(48K-96K-128K) -- assumed "Tood" to be typo for "Todd"
Lynx Basic Demonstration (1984)(Camputers)(Tape 1 of 2) / (Tape 2 of 2) changed to Lynx Basic Demonstratiom (1984)(Camputers)(GB)(Tape 1 of 2) / (Tape 2 of 2) -- Camputers is a British company, thus country flag should be (GB). This will also be changed in all Camsoft published games, as Camsoft was the software publishing arm of Camputers.
Pattern Box Demo (1984)(Camputers) changed to Pattern Box Demo (1984)(Camputers)(48K-96K-128K)(GB)
Red Tap (19xx)(-) changed to Enlarge (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)[a] -- is exactly the same demonstration as Enlarge above
S (19xx)(Each Lynx) changed to User-Defined Characters (1984)(Camputers)(GB)[b] -- same as User-Defined Characters moved from Games. I cannot verify that these are Camputers demos, but they seem official and make reference to a section on control codes in the Lynx user manual.
SimDisc (19xx)(Death Todd)
SimDisc (19xx)(Death Todd)[a] -- cannot get any of these to work in PALE, on any system, unsure whether all should be flagged as [b]
SimDisc (19xx)(Death Todd)[b]
Wowee (19xx)(-) -- doesn't seem to do anything, is only 14 bytes in size. I would argue for removal.

GAMES

Air Raid (1984)(Camputers) changed to Air Raid (1984)(Camputers)(GB)
Character Generator (1984)(Camputers) changed to User-Defined Characters (1984)(Camputers)(GB) -- moved to Demos
Character Generator Game (1984)(Camputers) changed to Character Generator Game (1984)(Camputers)(GB) -- moved to Applications. This is a hard one - it's an application for generating characters, which has a gameplay element as part of the tutorial.
Dungeon Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 1-5 of 5) -- info flags added. Tape 1 [welcome], Tape 2 [binary loader], Tapes 3-5 [adventure data]. This is per the advice in the PALE help file on getting these tapes to work. According to the author, the first tape serves simply as a welcome screen and the second tape is used to load the data from tapes 3-5 (which are headerless, data-only tapes). Note that as with other Level 9 adventures, I cannot get these to work beyond the welcome and loading screens under emulation, but have no reason to believe they are bad images. It has more to do with the strange loading method used by Level 9 these tapes have.
Pengo (1984)(Level 9 Computing) changed to Compass v1.1 (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(96K) -- gives errors on both 48K and 128K. Cannot get this to run after initial loading / decompressing. Should maybe be flagged as [b]


Additions

Code: [Select]

APPLICATIONS

6485p (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)
Aide - Lab-Proc (19xx)(-)(FR)
Character Generator Game (1984)(Camputers)(GB) -- moved from Games
Disassembler (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)(FR)
Generateur Basic (1984)(Aussage, C.)(FR)
Generateur de Caracteres (19xx)(-)(96K)(FR)
Hyperbolic Functions (19xx)(-)[b]
Inteltab (1984)(Sauget, A.)(96K-128K)(FR)
Lion Text (19xx)(Lion-Soft)
Lynx Composer (1983)(Kennedy, Mike)(96K)[b glitched graphics] -- publisher's name does not appear on title screen, simply a blank space followed by "presents". Using author's name for now until publisher can be discovered.
Lynx Disassembler v1.1 (19xx)(Camputers)(48K-96K-128K)(GB)(fr)
Maths (19xx)(-)(FR)
Programme Chopin (19xx)(-)(96K-128K)(FR)
Programme Chopin (19xx)(-)(FR)
Test (19xx)(-)(FR)

COMPILATIONS (NEW DAT)

Gempack 4 (1983)(Gem Software)

DEMOS

128 Graphics Demo (19xx)(-)(128K)
Lynx-Trot (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)[LC-FIG815]
Lynx-Trot (19xx)(-)(48K-96K-128K)[LC-FIG816]
Lynx-Trot (19xx)(-)[LC-FIG106][b] -- these all seem to be related in some way. the only one which actually gives the Lynx-Trot title is [LC-FIG816]. I have put the original filenames in the more info field in case they turn out to be important in better identifying these demos
User Defined Characters (1984)(Camputers)(GB) -- moved from Games
User Defined Characters (1984)(Camputers)(GB)[b] -- gives error message but still runs

GAMES

3D Monster Craze (19xx)(Camsoft)(GB)
Backgammon (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)
Battlebrick (19xx)(-)
Centipede (19xx)(Play It!)
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 1 of 5)(48K)[welcome]
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 2 of 5)(48K)[binary loader]
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 3 of 5)(48K)[adventure data]
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 4 of 5)(48K)[adventure data]
Colossal Adventure (1983)(Level 9 Computing)(Tape 5 of 5)(48K)[adventure data] -- see Dungeon Adventure for explanation of more info tags. cannot get these to work, but the manual states that they will run on a 48K system.
Compass v1.1 (1983)(Level 9 Computing)[b]
Compass v1.1 (1983)(Level 9 Computing)[b2]
Dam Buster (1983)(Camsoft)(96K)(GB)(fr)
Dam Buster (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)
Deathball (19xx)(-)
Diggerman (19xx)(Hunt, C.)
Floyds Bank (19xx)(Romik Software)
Gobble de Spook (1983)(Sian, J.)
Gridtrap (19xx)(-)(FR)
Labyrinthe (19xx)(Quazar Computing)(48K-96K-128K)(FR)
Logichess v2.2 (Danielsen, Kaare & Ekner, Hartvig)(96K)
Lynx Hangman (1983)(French, Steven B.)
Lynx Invaders (19xx)(Judd, M.D.)
Mastermind (19xx)(-)(96K)(FR)
Mazeman (1983)(Abersoft)
Mined Out (19xx)(Quicksilva)
Moonfall (1983)(Halamaj, Richard P.)
Moonfall (1983)(Halamaj, Richard P.)[instructions only]
Moonfall (1983)(Halamaj, Richard P.)(fr)
Muncher (1983-06-09)(Gordon, Robert)
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(96K)(GB)(fr)
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)(fr)
Numerons (1983)(Camsoft)(GB)(fr)[b freezes after loading]
Odysee d'Asterix, L' (19xx)(La Bibliotheque de Cintre)(96K)(FR) -- should this be Bibliotheque de Cintre, La?
Oh Mummy!! (1983)(Gem Software)
Panik (19xx)(Judd, M.D.)[b][loader]
Panik (19xx)(Judd, M.D.)(96K)(Tape 1 of 2)[cr T.A.G.][b][loader]
Panik (19xx)(Judd, M.D.)(96K)(Tape 2 of 2)[cr T.A.G.][b][game]
Play Your Cards Right (19xx)(-)(96K)
Pontoon (1983)(Hunt, C.)(48K-96K-128K)
Quest (19xx)(-)[b]
Racer (1983)(Sian Software)
Reversi (1983)(Hunt, C)[a] -- not sure about use of [a] tag here
Reversi (1983)(Hunt, C.)(Tape 1 of 2)[loader]
Reversi (1983)(Hunt, C.)(Tape 2 of 2)[game]
Rocketman - A Pair of Number Games for Kids (1983)(Smith, G.)
Scrablynx (1985)(Sauget, Alain)(96K)(FR)
Snake (1983)(Hunt, C.)
Snake (1983)(Hunt, C.)[a]
Space Trek (19xx)(Quazar Computing)
Spellbound (1983)(Smith, G.)
Treasure Island (1983)(Higgins, Neil)(Tape 1 of 2)[loader]
Treasure Island (1983)(Higgins, Neil)(Tape 2 of 2)[game]
Tron Blocker (19xx)(-)(96K)(FR)
Twinkle (1983)(Gem Software)
Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)
Worm, The (1983)(Quazar Computing)(96K)(fr)
Zombie Panic (19xx)(-)(FR)

OPERATING SYSTEMS (NEW DAT)

CPM v2.2 (19xx)(Digital Research)(128K) -- in .LDF disk image format. I believe PALE offers some tools for converting disks, not sure if there's a preferred format for disk images


I'm not sure what to do in terms of getting the various manuals, schematics, magazines etc. into TOSEC-PIX. I guess I'll start a new topic in there once I've sorted through everything.

[Cassiel]

I would get in contact with Aral via PM or by posting in the TOSEC-PIX sub-forum. He spearheads the PIX branch.

[mictlantecuhtle]

Nearly ready to release my first set of dats 

But I'm afraid I have one more problem - there's a dat in the TOSEC Lynx set called "Magazines", which appears to be tape images of type-in listings from magazines. I'm not really sure these belong in their own dat, however. To give an example

Code: [Select]

Brian Rumbelow's Lynx User #2 Page 15 (19xx)(Rumbelow, Brian)
This is a listing from Lynx User magazine, entitled TRIANGLES, which shows how triangles can be used to draw other shapes. Following the info in Lynx User and from testing, I've renamed this as follows

Code: [Select]

Triangles (1983-06)(Lynx User)(96K-128K)
I'd like to move this and all other such listings to Demos (or Games / Applications if appropriate), with the name of the magazine in the "Publisher" field. I also have one diskmag - LRG - for the Lynx, which I'm guessing should go in a "Diskmags" dat as per the C64 / Amiga sets.

[Cassiel]

Agreed - that seems much more sensible.

[TKaos]

Agreed too.

[mictlantecuhtle]

Alright, I think that's everything renamed and sorted appropriately. I moved a few more things around - Numerons, Rocketman and Spellbound all into an "Educational" dat, Compilations split into Applications and Games (there's only one file in each, but that seems to be the standard).

I've uploaded the dats here.

A quick rundown of what's included in the dats:

Applications (25 items)
Compilations - Applications (1 item)
Compilations - Games (1 item)
Demos (24 items)
Diskmags (1 item)
Educational (5 items)
Games (59 items)
Operating Systems (1 item)

I hope I've generated these right - options selected were "Add MD5 / SHA1", header entries were Name, Description, Version, Author, Category. Dats have been generated in deprecated, not XML format.

[PandMonium]

Hey! I guess i should do my part now and give you indications on how to submit those dats. Will pm you soon