Author Topic: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?  (Read 4637 times)

Offline Vicman

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Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« on: March 07, 2011, 09:12:06 PM »
Hi,
first : Hello to the community  ;)
My name is Vicman, and i've just released the "GameBase Enterprise" (by using James Burrows great Frontend)

Many "dumps" / Games for the Enterprise 64/128k are never official released for the EP.
They are "unofficial" conversions by "Enterprise Enthusiast" .
These Guy's are still converting Games for the EP. (most conversions from ZX Spectrum  or Amstrad CPC)

Well, I allready found the Enterprise 64 & 128 - Games (TOSEC-v2004-03-13_CM).dat .
And i must say, it is very incomplete (and also wrong named, sometimes...)  ::)

Up to now, there are 49 Games listed in the TOSEC.dat

I have collected about 350 Programms (Games, "Homebrew-Games" ,Demos,Utils) , original written on the EP.
and also 700 unofficial Spectrum conversions , and about 35 unofficial CPC conversions.

Now, I want to rename the files as TOSEC Naming Convention.


And now my questions :
- Wich flag should i use for the "Amateur Converter" ?  is it [p] for pirate ?  (well, i think the conversions aren't pirate dumps......just unofficial releases.....)  ???
- Should i use the nickname of the converter or the real name (if known) ?
- Wich year should i use : the year of the unofficial release , or the release year of the original software (i.e. zx spectrum release year) ?
- what's about the developer ? is he named in TOSEC ? or only the publisher ? (many homebrews have no publisher)
-- And if both , (publisher & developer) wich one first ?

Example 1 : for the EP-Converter :
Prince of Persia ,original released on the Amstrad CPC in 1990,  was converted by Geco (Noel Persa) in 2006.
Prince of Persia (1990)(Broderbund Software)[p Noel Persa][2006]  ?

Example 2 :
This is the original TOSEC Name from the Spectrum : [btw. (1987) should be wrong....WOS said 1989 for the Spectrum release...]

Blasteroids (1987)(Image Works)[128K]

Now, for the unofficial Enterprise conversion : converter is Attila Kiss (real name) Attus (Nickname)
Blasteroids (1987)(Image Works)[128K][Attus][19xx]

Example 3 :
This Game is allready listed in TOSEC. The Amateur Converter of this Game is Gyányi Sándor. Sorry, don't know the year of the conversion.....
Movie (198x)(Imagine Software)

maybe : Movie (198x)(Imagine Software)[EP-Conversion Gyányi Sándor] ?

Please help me out here  :)

thanks for reading & best regards,
Vicman


GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline Vicman

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 04:50:13 PM »
Maybe it's possible to add a new flag :   [c]  for converter or [uc] for unofficial conversion.
Don't know, if there were other Systems wich also has amateur conversions.....then it would make sense.....

p.s.
I want to beginn renaming my files.....,
 but because "Title (Year)(Publisher)"  is the bare minimum, i need to know, wich year i should use in my files :
release year of the original game , or the year the game was "unofficial" converted to Enterprise ?

also : Same for (Publisher)....'cause the Games are often unofficial, i haven't a Publisher...
-- should i use the "original publisher" , or should i write the developer instead ?

any suggestions ?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 04:52:20 PM by Vicman »
GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline Diaboł

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2011, 07:26:26 PM »
I'm not sure if this is the solution you are looking for but you can always use [more info] if there's no flag that suits. In my opinion you should use the year when the game was converted to Enterprise + name of the person who made the conversion since the code is different than the original one (the original developer and/or publisher did not release the software for Enterprise platform) but lets wait for other opinions.

Offline Cassiel

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 08:38:00 PM »
I have such software's in my DATs....

If the original is copyrighted, threat like a 'pirate' (note the deliberate quotes) e.g.
Game (2011)(Cassiel)[p]
where game = name (obviously), date = date of this new image, publisher = whoever has created this new software, and then a [p] to indicate it is in violation of IP/unauthorised original copy

If the original is in the public domain, then
Game (2011)(Cassiel - Original Author)(PD)
where game = name (obviously), date = date of this new image, publisher = whoever has created this new software AND original software (if sensible/applicable), and then a (PD) to indicate it is in the Public Domain or has a status of Permitted Distribution (depending on your views on such matters of what PD stands for...).

NO, this isn't perfect and YES this is a complicated issue, BUT... this is the best solution I've come up with.....

Disclaimer:
This is purely my opinion and not part of theofficial TNC or anything. Other people here can and will have very different opinions...  :)



Offline Vicman

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 09:00:35 PM »
O.K. , thanks for your replys so far...
So i have to wait for someone (maybe PandMonium ? ), who can definitely tell me what i should do ;-)

btw.
Many converters are hungarian. Should i write their names :
"Original" : László Kiss, Tamás Richter, István Horváth, Zoltán Németh, Gyányi Sándor   and so on...

or : Laszlo Kiss, Gyanyi Sandor, Zoltan Nemeth  ?
GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline TKaos

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 10:13:07 PM »
In the Atari 8bit DATs it's handled like this:
Jr Pacman (1984)(Atari)(US)[h Glenn][unreleased][5200]
[h] used for the guy who made the conversion
[unreleased] to tell it's not released for the Atari 8bit systems
[5200] to show it's originally an Atari 5200 game

That's the way it has been done before I started to maintain the DAT and I just kept it this way because it got all infos needed in the filename.

Offline Vicman

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 10:12:55 AM »
Thank you TKaos,
i think you're right. This should be the best way.
So, i will rename them as it's handled in the Atari 8bit DAT's, unless the "official TNC - Head" has other "instructions".

btw.
Jr Pacman (1984)(Atari)(US)[h Glenn][unreleased][5200]
The year is from the original release in the Atari 8bit DAT ? Or the year when it's has been hacked ?


« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 10:33:43 AM by Vicman »
GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline TKaos

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 02:21:59 PM »
It's the year from the original Atari 5200 release.

Offline Vicman

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 09:00:08 PM »
O.K.
It would then look like this !?

3D Starfighter (1988)(Code Masters)[h][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
10th Frame (1987)(US Gold[h Kiss, Attila][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
19 Part 1 - Boot Camp (1988)(Cascade Games)[h][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
180 (1986)(Mastertronic Added Dimension)[h  Hidas, Szilard - Csikos, Csaba][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
720 Degrees (1987)(US Gold)[h Nemeth, Zoltan][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
720 Degrees (1987)(US Gold)[h Sandor, Gyanyi][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
1942 (1986)(Elite Systems)[h Hidas, Szilard - Csikos, Csaba ][t][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]
1942 (1986)(Elite Systems)[h Hidas, Szilard - Csikos, Csaba ][unreleased][ZX Spectrum]

would this be o.k. so far ?

GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline TKaos

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 09:13:18 PM »
Seems fine so far, only thing I'd like to ask for is changing US Gold to -> U.S. Gold, that's the way we used most across all DATs and will be used for all DATs in the future.

Offline Vicman

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 08:53:12 AM »
o.k. i'll change it. I have "US Gold" copied from the zx spectrum DAT ;-)
GameBase-Projects:Philips VG 5000, Sord-M5, Acorn Atom, Enterprise v1.00
eCC-Imagepacks:Vic20,N64, Enterprise, Philips VG 5000, G7000, G74000 etc.

Offline VG8020

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 08:32:31 PM »
Hello,

Much interesting topic, Vicman. In the MSX scene some conversions were actually published by companies in the golden 80's); some conversions are the result of work by MSXers/coders.

Now, in the case of MSX and just as an example:

Given the videogame Shinnyuushain Tooru-Kun - Mikie which never was released for the MSX system.

muffie made a conversion in 2008.

Conversion welcome screen shows:
ORIGINAL GAME KONAMI 1984
REPROGRAMMED GAME SEGA 1985

Since it never was released for the MSX system I don't think the field publisher should be either Konami or Sega. However, naming muffie as the publisher is not really accurate since muffie did the conversion, not the publishing. So, what options would you consider?

Following TKaos' wise advice it should look like:

Shinnyuushain Tooru-Kun - Mikie (1985)(Sega)(MSX1)[h muffie][unreleased][SG-1000].rom

I am really fond of this approach. However, I agree with Vicman's view too: a new [c] flag would make the naming shorter, eg.

Shinnyuushain Tooru-Kun - Mikie (1985)(Sega)(MSX1)[c SG-1000 muffie].rom

The only con I think it's we're missing the conversion year. Any suggestions for keeping it?

In other orther of things, the case below is also a conversion but not treated as such: official conversion by a company, eg.

Abu Simbel Profanation (1986)(Dinamic Software)(ES)[BLOAD'CAS-',R].cas

Originally released for ZX Spectrum, Dinamic Software converted/ported it to the MSX system as published it. I think that the key is whether it's being officially published and so released for a given system or whether that videogame was never publised/released for that given system.

All things considered, I think TOSEC renamers must act/rename coherently and stick to the convention. If TKaos' proposal goes forward, I think it should be explained in the TNC guide.

Greetings,

« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 01:17:16 AM by VG8020 »
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Offline Cassiel

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 10:19:45 PM »
Who you calling a 'TOSER'?!!!!!!    ;)

Offline VG8020

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 01:18:33 AM »
Glups!  ::) Cassiel, you made me edit my previous post!  ;)
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Offline VG8020

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Re: Enterprise 64/128 : Wich flag for unofficials conversions ?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2011, 07:41:07 PM »
Two more issues: one concerning emulation; the other, concerning conversions:

1 #####
B.C.’s Quest for Tires was published for the MSX in 1985 by Toshiba-EMI:

BC's Quest for Tires (1985)(Toshiba-EMI)(JP).rom

Previously in 1982 it was published for the ColecoVision in by Sierra and de Kogel converted it for the MSX system. To be more precise he created a ColecoVision emulator for the .rom as well as released a disc with the rom and emulator in.

If we are to treat this case as a conversion/port, I think it should look like...

B.C.'s Quest for Tires (1983)(Sierra)(MSX1)[h de Kogel, Marcel][unreleased][ColecoVision][Ascii8][PSG].rom

However, if we are to consider roms from thir-party systems being directly emulated under a given system as in my case above, how do you think we should treat them? I'd suggest a new flag [e] for emulator+3rd party rom combinations, eg.

B.C.'s Quest for Tires (1983)(Sierra)(MSX1)[e de Kogel, Marcel][unreleased][ColecoVision][Ascii8][PSG].dsk

The .dsk includes:

msxdos.sys
command.com
mission.com - ColecoVision emulator
coleco.rom - ColecoVision OS ROM image
bcquest.rom - the ColecoVision videogame rom
autoexec.bat

Some of you might consider this case should not be catalogued since it's not even a conversion. But then what about...?

B.C.'s Quest for Tires (1983)(Sierra)(MSX1)[h de Kogel, Marcel][unreleased][ColecoVision][Ascii8][PSG].rom

which is actually an MSX rom file.

I'm glad to discuss all sorts of naming nuances.

Mind also we should consider the [unreleased] tag since, as shown above, was actually released for the MSX system by Toshiba-EMI.


2 #####

As it was the case with many (tape) videogames released in the 80's, the original version was coded for Spectrum. The, ports/conversions were released for other systems eg. Commodore, Amstrad, MSX.

Published by Spanish Dinamic Software, Capitan Trueno is just one of many examples that could be put forward.

The record below is a tape to disc version:

Capitan Trueno (1989)(Dinamic Software)(ES).dsk

Now, since the MSX version was ported/converted from the Spectrum one while at the same time published but Dinamic Software, it could be argued that it might be renamed to...

Capitan Trueno (1989)(Dinamic Software)(ES)[h Dinamic Software][Spectrum].dsk

meaning it's the published MSX game Capitan Truenno actually converted from Spectrum by the same company. I've dropped the [unreleased] tag since it was actually released/published for the MSX system.

Ok, I now, this would mean keeping an orthodox naming hard line ;)

Greetings,
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 08:09:06 PM by VG8020 »
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