Author Topic: TOSEC ISO - Amiga  (Read 12302 times)

Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2014, 03:33:34 PM »
that doesn't explain why it works with Pirates Gold!

The ISO (data) part of my Super Skid Marks, isn't the same as in TOSEC.
Which it should compared to my other ISO dumps that actually work.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 03:47:03 PM by tomse »
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Offline Aral

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2014, 01:10:20 PM »
Trust me tomse, we spent hundreds of hours testing different drives and settings back in the day and the combination myself and maddog describe in previous posts is the only combination that will give 100% correct crc's every time. 

This afternoon i thought i would have a muck around with some different drive / software combinations on some Sega Saturn, IBM PC and Sega Mega CD multi track Cd's.  I tried a BDR-207DBK, DVR-221LBK, DVR-215D, DVR-111D and a DVR-108BK.  I tried the latest EAC and 0.99 beta 5.

Without boring you with detail only the DVR-111D and DVR-108BK gave the correct CRC's with EAC 0.99 beta 5.  The rest of them gave partial CRC matches.


Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2014, 09:26:57 AM »
alrighty,

have you tested against the DVR-108 too as it should be the same drive as the DVR108BK which just has the plastic in black instead of white.. or..??

since these are drives with IDE interfaces have they been tested with USB / IDE adapters ?

and do you have a description on how to perform these tests, or do you just re-read multiple times and see if the checksum is the same.

the reason why I'm asking is that it might not be viable to aquire optical drives second hand and believe they work perfectly, so continous tests on more modern drives should not be abandonned. I have access to a good number of different models I can make tests on.

Do we have a compiled lists of drives already tested? imo it would be beneficial to have such a list to show people.

(it's been a while since I paid that much for a DVD writer  ;D)

« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 12:11:28 PM by tomse »
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Offline Maddog

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2014, 08:53:25 AM »
For Super Skidmarks, there appear to be two different versions.
I was able to use the wayback machine to dig out some long dead info:
Quote
Super Skidmarks    2.2    1995    Acid    Guildhall Leisure          GH01 10 AUG 95    Different audio tracks    •
Super Skidmarks    2.2    1995    Acid    Guildhall Leisure          GH01 21 APR 95       •

http://web.archive.org/web/20060501140739/http://startaq.ath.cx:10080/list.php?sys=1

The one marked as "different audio tracks" is shown with a green dot there, so this is the verified one. The other one is red (unverified) and it's CRCs were only known by [idoru] as he was maintaining the ISO dats. No chance to retrieve these long lost checksums anymore.

You'll have to check your ringcode. If it matches the verified dump, then we got a dumping method issue in our hands and need to research further what's going on. If it's different, then obviously checksums SHOULD be different, at least for the audio tracks. To determine what's going on with the ISO, it's usually useful to do a binary comparison, this immediately illustrates bad dumps (usually just amount to a sequence of 0 bytes at the end of the ISO that's missing from the dump) or a different data revision (differences at the actual data). If needed I can do this, as long as the new ISO dump and the old verified one are given to me to compare.

Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2014, 10:38:44 AM »
Thanks for the info Maddog.
I'll redump when my DVR-111 drive arrives to see any changes.

I have a contact who has a good stack of CD32 media, amongst them is Super Skidmarks 2 I'll see if I can do a comparison there, when/if the sun permits ;-)

EDIT: ok, for some reason (likely to what Aral says), perhaps because of a hot drive? (it was the last CD I dumped) the checksums from that day till now differ.
I guess I'll need to re-dump my cd's again and make sure they have the same checksum.

the "GH1 21 APR 95" is the disc I have. The iso dump today is the same as the database, though wave files differ still. I'll wait till the drive arrives to verify.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 11:00:39 AM by tomse »
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Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2014, 11:07:52 AM »
I've received quite a good amount of cd images from someone. What is the policy in relation that we get such dumps, but the source is unknown?

There are also several images in the eab file server. How is the policy to convert these to iso/cue and add to the database?

Most are cue/bin,  ccd/img etc...  I'm only considering the data-only media here, not the data/audio.


EDIT: And, how do we handle Unofficial releases of something? i.e. if a CD32 is released as .nrg ?
(here I would take it as-is, but I have to ask :-))

EDIT2: what do we do with mixed ISO's like these?
http://www.rgcd.co.uk/p/magazine.html
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 01:14:50 PM by tomse »
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Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2014, 07:23:51 PM »
I just received my Pioneer 111D drive.

Since I've had to set that up on a different computer, I went through the ripping guide again.
I spotted something I didn't change on my primary workstation.
Which was the "Append GAP to next track" setting.

I changed that on my primary workstation, and I've dumped Super Skid Marks several times now, both with newest version of EAC and the 0.99 prebeta.
The result of these dumps are the same, and have the same hash value as what is in tosec.
This was using the Pioneer BDR-S08 and v1.10 firmware

@Aral if you want, I can make some extensive checking on this drive (I just need to know which procedures you want me to do)


on the other hand.
Track 2 of Super Skid Marks doesn't have the same hash value as the one in TOSEC using the Pioneer DVR-111D drive I just received. This has been testing using both versions (latest and prebeta) of EAC

Same goes for Pirates Gold! Track 2 is different from what's in TOSEC with the Pioneer DVR-111D and the BDR-S08  (Append Gaps to next track)

Using "Append Gaps to previous tracks" on both drives Track 2 of Pirates Gold! have the same hash as in the database.

So to sum up there are inconsistencies! All these dumps are with EAC 0.9 Prebeta 5,
Dumping Track 2 of super skid marks with the DVR-111D is different from the database no matter which setting.
Dumping Track 2 of super skid marks with the BDR-S08 is good when using  "Append Gap to next track" (also OK with newest EAC)
Dumping Track 2 of super skid marks with the BDR-S08 is bad when using  "Append Gap to previous track"
Dumping Track 2 of Pirates Gold using "Append Gap to next track" The dumps of both drives are bad.

Dumping Track 2 of Pirates Gold using "Append Gap to previous track" The dumps of both drives are good.

All the other tracks are good, it's just track 2 that causes issues.

So after seeing this what would be a proper course of action be to do now?
* Should we reset the verified marker for the Images that have audio tracks?
* Is there something wrong in my setup?


Make note that people might not want to spend £50-£100 to aquire a DVR-111D or other drive that has been tested and approved, just to send in their dumps,
so donated dumps w/audio might be incorrect.



« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 02:23:57 PM by tomse »
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Offline Maddog

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2014, 09:54:59 AM »
Damned if I can remember correctly anymore the fine points of EAC...
IIRC, versions of EAC up to a point had a bug? different way of calculating? at gap detection which would indeed alter the hash of track02.
I don't really remember in which version this was fixed, but dumps of TOSEC were done using the old versions. Anyone using newer versions would come up with different hash, just like you mention. Since the "error" wasn't involving any data loss, it was decided not to redump everything from scratch.

Not sure which version I was using back then, a little voice in my mind says 0.95 beta 3. I am unable to check anymore since my old dumping computer which still has the relevant programs installed is back home in Greece and I am living in Dubai now. But it might be worth a shot finding and using 0.95 b3.
Or talking with Aral and Cassiel about the possibility of finally redoing some dumps using the latest EAC, I can't make a call for that.

For previous post questions: unofficial is generally handled "as-is". See some of the existing "Unofficial" dats in TOSEC ISO.
As for converting dumps existing in other formats, we have never done this. All dumps in TOSEC had known dumpers and judging from amount of errors I have seen in random dumps from the Net, it is at least a risky business to take any random image and convert it. Totally impossible for discs with CDDA, but even the theoretically simple data-only stuff, sometimes wouldn't convert to an image identical to the verified one. I'd go with "quality-not quantity" approach and just ignore any such stuff.
Redump were quite loose in their acceptance of "dumps" so they ended up with several scene rips in their dats that proved different from a dump done from an actual disc. At least in PS2 dat from what I hear :)
I have personally found one in the PSP as well. Ape Academy 2. NoIntro has it marked as a correct dump in their PSP dat, using a Redump "dump". I dumped the same disc, came up with a different result and after getting crazy thinking I made a bad dump it was finally discovered that someone had used a scene rip made with an older tool and submitted it as an actual dump.

Offline tomse

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2014, 10:14:58 AM »
Thanks for the info.. I'm glad that you've had some issues too (that it isn't just me that has issues  ;D )

Untill Aral can give an answer too I'll put it to rest for a while. I don't want to do unnecessary double work if I'm doing something wrong anyway.

The 0.95 Beta 4 is still available, but as you say -and from what I've read around the forum- there are issues with some of the versions. Which ones, doesn't seem to be properly confirmed, other than the guide Aral made, which states to use the 0.99 prebeta.

I think I'll need to ask the amiga community to redump if possible, for the images that are in the EAB fileserver but not in TOSEC. There are quite a lot of goodies there.

:-)
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Offline yori yoshizuki

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Re: TOSEC ISO - Amiga
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2019, 10:59:52 PM »
Sorry to resume an old topic but I'd suggest to redump these amy iso:

MaxonATLAS - Multimedialer Routenplaner v3.10 (1996)(Maxon Computer)(DE)

MaxonATLAS - Multimedialer Routenplaner v3.13 (1997)(Maxon Computer)(DE)

Gateway! v3 (1998)(Schatztruhe - GTI)(SW)(Disk 1 of 2)[NetBSD 1.3.2]

Gateway! v3 (1998)(Schatztruhe - GTI)(SW)(Disk 2 of 2)[NetBSD 1.3.2]

AmigaOS 3.5 (1999)(Haage & Partner)

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 11:24:53 PM by yori yoshizuki »