Author Topic: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?  (Read 659 times)

Offline Danceographic Ocean

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Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« on: May 30, 2025, 09:40:02 PM »
I have recently bought myself a Greaseweazle v4.1 and started dumping disks again (I did some Atari ST dumping back in the Grendel days), primarly so far Commodore Amiga disks. For some reason I have found a liking to the CU Amiga coverdisks and I have alot of them, same thing with the DatorMagazine coverdisk. I have seen that one disk so far have the confirmed dump flag [!] in the database. Would it be interesting for you if I supplied you with my dumps and/or proof that I have dumped them and that they match the TOSEC database (which you can of cource test yourself) so you can tag them as confirmed?

How many dumps of each before you consider a dump confirmed? I have up to five disks that are the same and dump the same.

I have also found some intentional or non-inentional irregulareties when comparing my dumps to the database. For example one disk that is a cover disk is listed in the Amiga games dat file. Sure it might have been spread as a non coverdisk too with the exact contents, or the coverdisk was placed in games in games for some reason or by mistake. I have also seen application disks having the same thing, although not my dumps. But we can talk about stuff like that later if you are at all interested.

Apart from the coverdisks I have alot of cracked games, some cracked apps and alot of original application disks too. Must stuff is not yet dumped. I have 3000+ disks in total, like 10-12% or so I have dumped or I have tried to dump.

Danceographic Ocean
Swedish Dump Mafia



Offline mictlantecuhtle

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2025, 08:20:30 PM »
Hi there! Apologies for the late reply to your post, been a while since I've had time to check the forums.

I think in general what you're proposing would be incredibly helpful. More data from original disks is vital to verifying existing dumps, especially if you're able to confirm that images produced with current dumping methods match older dumps.

However Amiga stuff is not my area of expertise and I'd like to get input from those involved. I've flagged this up in our team chat and if you wanted to join our Discord to discuss further then that would be really good - invite link is at https://discord.com/invite/gCcrNqSd2U

Offline Crashdisk

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2025, 09:30:08 PM »
Hi, thanks for contacting us and offering your dumps to contribute to the TOSEC project.
To validate a dump, you need at least 3 identical dumps. In 99.99% of cases, an alteration of a DOS disk generates a unique disk (even if the case of bootblocks requires a point of vigilance) so more is preferable.
Regarding the presence of coverdisk in the Game/App section, this can be debated on a case-by-case basis. The Game section also collects game demos, and they belong there if the demo is not signed by the magazine (exclusivity), if it has been distributed in a magazine as an archive (DMS or other) or if the disk has been partially purged by a hacker to leave only the game demo, so it's not really a coverdisk anymore...
I hope your dumping work is progressing well and that we'll hear from you soon!
Crashdisk
Amiga section

Offline Danceographic Ocean

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2025, 08:14:46 AM »
Is that three dumps total, or the one in TOSEC plus three additinal dumps?

I know of a person on Internet Archive who also dumped coverdisks himself (with scans), would those count towards a validation?

I will get in touch when I dumped all my coverdisks, still have pently to go. I have ordered more too since I wrote the first message.

Offline Crashdisk

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2025, 06:46:27 PM »
Is that three dumps total, or the one in TOSEC plus three additinal dumps?
Yes, that sounds good.

I know of a person on Internet Archive who also dumped coverdisks himself (with scans), would those count towards a validation?
At the very least, the user must explicitly state that they have generated the data themselves. A reference to the equipment or method used is a good indication.

I will get in touch when I dumped all my coverdisks, still have pently to go. I have ordered more too since I wrote the first message.
If your work is progressing, that's good news, but if at any point your motivation drops, don't hesitate to work in batches. Having feedback on what has already been achieved, even if the work isn't finished, is a source of motivation :-)

Offline Danceographic Ocean

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2025, 10:59:14 AM »
Maybe I wasn't clear. What I ment was do you need me to send you atleast two dumps to confirm a dump in tosec, or atleast three?

I currently have 99 dumps that where two or more of my dumps are the same (and in tosec), and 47 where three or more are the same. There are also a couple where four and five dumps are the same.

This is just counting coverdisks, and I am not done dumping them. I also have plenty of original disks (mostly applications) that I am not done dumping.

I also have coverdisk dumps where the coverdisk is in the database, but my dump is not matching any known version of it. Plus one disk where no dump of it is in the database.

Offline Danceographic Ocean

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2025, 11:02:48 AM »
This is the status so far:

Dumps matching TOSEC: 213
Dumps not matching TOSEC: 253
Dumps total: 466 (not counting unsuccessfull dumps, which I never keep)

Offline Crashdisk

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Re: Confirm Amiga Coverdisk dumps?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2025, 08:17:20 PM »
Firstly, as a reminder, the [!] flag is initially used for CD dumping and not for floppy disks. It is found in very few datfile on the whole of the main TOSEC branch (Amiga and C64 first).
There is no precise protocol for determining whether a dump is perfect and unmodified, but the multiplication of converging sources helps in the decision.
I also developed ADF-Workshop for this reason. It allows you to see clearly if one disk stands out from the others among all the disks in a given production.
I currently have more than a million ADFs in my database for only 340k unique disks.
To tell the truth, a single raw dump could be enough if we had the right tools to analyse it (those of SPS), but we don't...
The other parameter to take into account is the level of confidence you can place in the sources.
It's easy to make a copy of a source available on the Internet and incorporate it into your collection, while taking ownership of the extraction. The same is true of archive.org, where contributors remain vague about the origin of the digital copy of a medium (it's easier to take a photo of a disk than to extract its contents).
I'm bound to have more confidence with a regular contributor, where the "dump of an original" indication will have more value and where the number of identical copies will be less restrictive.
The media also plays a role, NoDOS disks are less prone to system alterations (which is normal), but when they do occur, it's easier to get identical altered disks.
In short, it's a case-by-case decision, based on the existing data, the disk (true original? Purchased on ebay? ...), the dumper, the archivist's experience and ... feeling.

For the moment, we can say that 3 identical copies outside TOSEC is a good level of confidence.
If there are fewer, we'll have to take a closer look at each candidate.